denis bider

Various thoughts

Idiot Greeks

Posted May 5, 2010 at 20:28 by denisbider

Last edited May 5, 2010 at 20:49 by denisbider

anarchy economy financial crisis foreign aid Greece insanity outrage retirement tragedy

I've never had too much respect for modern Greece - like I don't have much respect for any country that dwells on the overinflated achievements of its ancestors, but not achieving anything today.

What's happening in Greece these days, however, is outrageous. Over the last decade, Greeks have enjoyed a government spending splurge that was financed by borrowed money. Now they are deeply in debt. In order to stop accumulating that debt, let alone to repay it - if at all - they need to tighten their belts. Work a little bit more, for a little less money, for a little bit longer. There is no other way, because the borrowed money isn't coming any more. The Greek government's spending cannot continue at its former levels. Without the borrowed money, the numbers simply don't work out.

So what do the idiots do? They don't just stick their heads into sand. They cement buckets full of sand onto their heads and run around while setting things on fire:

At least three people have been killed in the Greek capital as protesters set fire to a bank during a general strike over planned austerity measures. [...] Riot police forced them back, but right next to parliament, other groups set buildings on fire - including a department of the finance ministry in charge of the the austerity programme as well as an office of the Athens prefecture.

What could we possibly do to make people understand economic realities? To not lash out like this when their debt-funded benefits must end? Better education in schools? What else is possible?

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Showing 16 out of 16 comments, oldest first:

Comment on May 8, 2010 at 03:49 by Anonymous

Denis, I agree with you 100%!! I am someone who is of Greek heritage, and these idiots who are running in the streets rioting are completely void of any logic, reasoning or intelligence. The great history that these modern Greeks claim to be apart of is history!! What a joke! The real Greeks left that country years ago and made themselves into educated professionals. What you have left there are a bunch of ignorant grill jockeys cooking soublaki to tourists all day long. They are a joke!!

Comment on May 8, 2010 at 07:20 by denisbider

Hahaha! That was one of the best comments ever :)

I haven't actually been to Greece myself, I just know of the riots from the news. I'm sure what goes on in the news isn't representative of all Greeks, but unfortunately it does seem representative of rather many. :-/

Comment on May 21, 2010 at 15:22 by Richard Kulisz

What could you possibly do to understand government corruption? It's the corrupt greek government that's borrowed money and invested it in banks and super-container ships that then went bankrupt when the global economy went bust. Are the greek people responsible for this? They sure as fuck don't think so. And they'd be right since the USA funded anti-democratic right-wing plots in Greece. What will it take for you to comprehend REAL POLITICS, idiot?

The kind of people who think the imaginary agglomeration called "greece" is a unitary actor are idiots. YOU sir are an idiot.

Comment on May 30, 2010 at 04:41 by denisbider

Thank you, Richard, for providing an example of the "Mr. Souvlaki" point of view.

Greek politicians are indeed likely corrupt, like they are, to a lesser or greater extent, in all countries.

But the reason Greece has to endure austerity measures is because the country - not just the politicians - has been living beyond its means.

Blaming the politicians for "stealing the money" is what the masses do after the politicians did just what the masses requested in voting booths over the previous years: prolongation of status quo as opposed to reform.

Now the reform has to come in a more drastic way.

Comment on Jun 8, 2010 at 23:46 by Richard Kulisz

Denis you ignorant twat. What part of "Greece is anti-democratic" do you not understand? Oh yeah, you fail to understand the part where countries differ in the amount of democracy they have and in the amount of corruption they have. You prove this when you say that politicians are corrupt "in all countries", something which is blatantly untrue. You are so fucking ignorant and uneducated that you probably don't even realize the USA is a third-world country. And that's the lens you're looking at everything in: a third-world lens.

Comment on Jun 10, 2010 at 02:38 by denisbider

Richard, you're right that some countries have surprisingly little corruption. That is admirable.

Would you mind explaining more about how governance in Greece has been anti-democratic?

Pertaining to the current situation, how have past actions of Greece's government, actions which led to the current state of affairs, been against what the people had voted for in elections?

If you consider the US to be third world, then you're using a curious definition of what "third world" means. Definitions which differ radically from commonly accepted meanings are largely useless and do not contribute to communication.

Comment on Oct 20, 2010 at 08:05 by Anonymous

Denise, I agree with you %100. I' ve never been to Greece but my experience with dealing with Greek customers gives me damn good reasons for why the Greeks are so corrupted. The word “irresponsible” is made for them. What they only do is to point out their finger at us, send us offensive email, and shout at our ears over the phone. I am not a native English speaker, but their English is not comprehensive at all. Despite of acknowledging their poor language skills (maybe better to say their communication skills are close to zero), they are the master of blaming on people, saying "your message is not clear at all." The Greek government is made up with these idiots. The nation is corrupted from the grass route level. I feel very sorry for other EU nations because they have to cover their a** by using the tax money that is collected from hard-working people.

Comment on Mar 2, 2013 at 22:06 by Aggelos

I Am A Greek Man, Well I Somehow Agree With You That Greeks
Are Ignorants A Lot Of Times ,And
Want To Hear Only What They Want
To Hear . But Its Not Our Fault
We Are Educated Much More Than You
Think , We All Have Degrees And
We Work To Live , We Don't Live To
Work Like Germans Or English. We Had A Very Strong Rate In Stockhouse And We Will Be Having A Lot More , If Sent By The Fuckin USA George Papandreou Never Had Govern Us.
Karamanlis , Former Prime Minister Before Papandreou Had A Deal With Russia To Extract The Oil From The Aegean Sea Which Now Your Fucking European And American Cantries Will Have For Pennies .
You Have Probably Once Heard About The Pipeline
" Burgas - Alexandroupoli". That Would Have Been The Pipeline Greece Would Transfer Its Oil With The Protection Of Russians Which Value Is Up To 3 Trillion Euros.
The Only Mistake We Made Was , That
Greek People Believed The Lies
Papandreou Said , Greeks Became A
Beautiful Part Of Subconscious
Control And Ended Up Cursed By Some
European Sophomorics(half-taught), Who Dont Have A Full Idea About What Is Truly Going On , On This World.

In Greece We Know That People Are Ignorant But....

Comment on Mar 5, 2013 at 13:22 by denisbider

Wow. You talk about superior education, and then you go and capitalize every word.

aggelos Georgant: We Work To Live , We Don't Live To Work

You have a broken system that prevents many of you from working at all, while showering others with privilege.

aggelos Georgant: We Had A Very Strong Rate In Stockhouse And We Will Be Having A Lot More

You should check out Iceland, the financial crisis hit them very hard, and they were the first to recover. Greece still has not.

aggelos Georgant: Had A Deal With Russia To Extract The Oil From The Aegean Sea Which Now Your Fucking European And American Cantries Will Have For Pennies

So the only way you can think of to save your economy is to sell a natural resource which happens to be there by luck, and which you in no way helped create?

You should check out Japan, or South Korea, or Iceland. Those countries have practically no natural resources to rely on, other than the ingenuity of their people. Look how very far ahead of you they are.

Comment on Mar 5, 2013 at 18:39 by Richard Kulisz

Denis, Iceland has enormous natural resources. It has copious and very cheap geothermal energy which could easily be used to produce vast amounts of aluminum. Unfortunately, the idiot Icelanders don't want to ruin their "pristine landscape" by something that makes them money. Japan and South Korea not so much.

And have you bothered to look up democracy since your last post? It's pathetic how you believe elections have fuck-all to do with it. In fact, elections have been known for 2000 years to be ANTI-democratic. To be ARISTOCRATIC.

Same how you believe the USA is a first world country. Second-world at best. The ORIGINAL definition of first-second-third was first: us, second: soviets, third: everyone else. Are you saying you're going by this "ancient and accepted view of the world"? Oh and by the way, it is incredibly pathetic how you appeal to what the masses of ignorant cattle know. Is being a cow your highest aspiration?

Comment on Mar 6, 2013 at 08:57 by denisbider

Richard, I can't find much worth addressing in your comment. It seems to consist mostly of three kinds of things: (1) misrepresentations and misunderstandings of my views, (2) calling me names for ostensibly holding these misrepresented views, and (3) various ramblings.

It sure is fun to read your comments though, because you go on these hilarious ramblings that seem to be completely unrelated to reality.

Comment on Oct 24, 2013 at 18:00 by Unknown

Denis, your points are very logic but instead of saying and pointing fingers without really knowing nor had any experience we should put ourselves in the situation of Greeks.
As I read from your previous comment you have never been to Greece or had any experience at all just from the press TV or internet ... an advice do not really rely on the media . Behind the Media are a lot of "pushing powers" and benefits . I agree with you not all Greeks are the oposite of what goes on in the news ( as you say). Another comment I would like to say to you is that of natural resources and that they are there by luck . In order a country to move on, it should take advantage of all its belongings and powers .... from current work and suffering till using the tools/sources that have been given to Greece by "luck". Besides only a fool wouldn't use EVERYTHING OR ANYTHING THAT IT HAS/CAN DO IN ORDER TO MOVE ON WHETHER ITS THE RESOURCES OR WORK. BESIDES GREEKS INVENTED DEMOCRACY AND USE THE BOOTHING . AND WHAT REALLY IS THE PROBLEM IN GREECE !IS! THE GOVERNMENT BECAUSE THE GOVERMENT AND POLITICIANS ARE THE ONE'S THAT "PUSH" PEOPLE BY AN INDIRECT WAY TO BLACKMAIL THEM SO THEY CAN VOTE A CERTAIN POL. "IDIOT GREEKS" PLEASE BEFORE POINTING FINGERS SEE IF YOUR HANDS ARE CLEAN AS WELL.

IN ADVANCE.

Comment on Oct 24, 2013 at 22:03 by denisbider

Nada: In order a country to move on, it should take advantage of all its belongings and powers

I agree. Unfortunately, resources given to countries by luck tend to make this process harder, rather than easier. A country that has little resources has to organize its people so they're productive; the result tends to be a high-functioning and prosperous society. Countries that are given natural resources, however, will tend to squander their human capital. The oil-rich Arab countries have a dysfunctional work force, resource-rich Africa is completely in the toilet, Russia's oil economy does little to improve the average Russian's life.

Norway could be cited as an example country that makes good use of its natural resources, for the benefit of all its citizens. But if Greece managed itself like Norway, no one would be criticizing it.

Nada: BESIDES GREEKS INVENTED DEMOCRACY

A mistake for which the world is still paying.

Nada: AND WHAT REALLY IS THE PROBLEM IN GREECE !IS! THE GOVERNMENT BECAUSE THE GOVERMENT AND POLITICIANS ARE THE ONE'S THAT "PUSH" PEOPLE

So you're saying this democracy thing isn't working so well?

Nada: PLEASE BEFORE POINTING FINGERS SEE IF YOUR HANDS ARE CLEAN AS WELL.

Most countries are populated with people who on average are stupid, and shortsightedly selfish. It's just that in some countries, this element doesn't prevail, and in other countries, like Greece, it does...

Comment on Oct 25, 2013 at 13:26 by Unknown

First of all are you from Norway ?

Denis, so your beliefs are not democratic and tend to be far away from mine ( so if we lets say dont have democracy ) they are not equal ,because democracy is about being equal. And if you (the world) are still paying for it you should do something get strong willed. You and the people who believe so , change it . Get motivated ! and dont later on call greeks lazy . Its easier to work like robots but not to stand up for your opinions equality and freedom something that democracy tends to do.
"Most countries are populated with people who on average are stupid, and shortsightedly selfish. It's just that in some countries, this element doesn't prevail, and in other countries, like Greece, it does..." -THIS IS VERY IMPERSONAL ONLY SCIENTIFICALLY YOU CAN STATE THAT A COUNTRY HAS AN AVERAGE OF STUPID PEOPLE FOR EXAMPLE , DO YOU HAVE THE STATISTICS TO PROVE THAT ? IF SO PLEASE LET ME KNOW. Bias is not they is not an OPTION TO JUDGE SOMEONE FOR WHO THEY ARE.

Comment on Oct 25, 2013 at 20:21 by denisbider

Nada: First of all are you from Norway ?

I am not. And it doesn't make a difference, either way.

Nada: so your beliefs are not democratic and tend to be far away from mine ( so if we lets say dont have democracy ) they are not equal ,because democracy is about being equal

You're trying to say two opposing things at the same time. One the one hand, you are extolling the virtues of democracy. On the other hand, you complain about Greek politicians manipulating the public. Well, duh? Democracy is about politicians manipulating the public.

Nada: You and the people who believe so , change it . Get motivated !

I'm doing my part by posting opinions which everyone is free to either consider, or ignore. To make a difference in politics, you either have to convince people on a rational basis, or manipulate them on an irrational basis, or coerce them using force. I believe in neither force, nor manipulation, so by writing on this blog, I'm doing what I can.

If you don't like what I write, don't read it, and don't get into arguments with me.

Nada: THIS IS VERY IMPERSONAL ONLY SCIENTIFICALLY YOU CAN STATE THAT A COUNTRY HAS AN AVERAGE OF STUPID PEOPLE FOR EXAMPLE

You're dumb. How's that for science?

Comment on Nov 24, 2020 at 14:08 by Remus

The problem with Greece is that they make everything as hard as possible for a samall business. Their VAT is 24 percent and you pay that VAT if your turnaround is more than 10K EUR. In the UK the bracket is 80K. Why not make a smart decision and set the VAT bracket to 100K. But this will never happens as you know Greeks are proud for this system; or not proud, but avoiding so they do not complain too much.

An everything is like this. They do not complain or try to make it better but they avoid it. Tax evasion is like drinking water in Greece.

Also, if you import something into Greece you pay 24 percent VAT, no exceptions. Greek customs are crazy and even if you not supposed to pay tax and VAT you will pay anyway, just because Greek customs said so. BS.

Everything that said above and more just repels any smart person that may do a business in Greece.
What is left are angry Greeks that do not pay any taxes and just look how to rip you off.

What they sow is what they reap.