denis bider

Before parroting (wrong) statements, it is always good to take a look first into the original data, which you can find in the supplement of the corresponding preprint on the medrxiv.

Of particular interest is table S6, where you will find that you have severe COVID-19 occurrence at vaccine vs placebo at 1:30 . The definition of severe COVID-19 you can find on p.7. In detail, "clinical signs at rest indicative of severe systemic illness; respiratory failure; evidence of shock; significant acute renal, hepatic, or neurologic dysfunction; intensive care unit admission; and/or death". Most of these cases probably require at least hospitalisation.

So much for "vaccines obviously don't work". In fact, they do work remarkably well compared to other vaccines. The efficacy rate is telling.

Now you have to look at the infection rate. We have after one dose 131:1034 (table S5). 30/1034 gives ~3% . That is roughly the amount of people requiring hospital care, if COVID-19 rips through the unvaccinated population.

What you have to ask now is, how many of the severe cases would have survived without hospital care. Because if it spreads uncontrolled, likely you will have problems getting your care, cf. general hospital beds and ICU beds available per population. So, just looking at the total death numbers in the study, out of which your conclusion is derived, does not make a lot of sense, as the death numbers would have been probably higher, if the severe cases would not have obtained hospital treatment.

"Dreamer", the vaccine group had more deaths than the placebo group. Case closed.

There is no ethical case to mandate vaccination if it neither stops transmission, nor reduces the number of deaths.

If the vaccines are effective at reducing severity of Covid symptoms, but the tradeoff is increased risk of myocardial infarction, then this is a decision to be made by each individual (and I think it's obvious what my decision is).

To force such a decision top-down on billions of people, such as is right now being done in countries across the world, is an abomination and reveals that the true purpose has nothing to do with public health, it has to do with total control and biometric indexing of the population.

The information I would be most interested in knowing is the age structure of the 15 vaccine deaths in the trial, vs. the 14 placebo deaths. I'm going to bet that the 14 placebo deaths had average age 79, but the 15 vaccine deaths included people aged 30-50 who died prematurely for reasons linked to the vaccine.

So the vaccine does not only fail to save people, it also redistributes deaths from 80+ to children and young adults.

It is abominable. And your defense of it is abominable. It makes you an abominable person.

"Dreamer", your claims about available ICU beds are bullshit. There is no shortage, despite "spiking cases" of the "Delta variant". Example in Florida:

https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1421913230855876616

Don't be a scumbag. Don't be a useful idiot for the elites.

The number of deaths have been balanced between vaccine and placebo group. Regarding the vaccine group deaths according to p6: "None of these deaths were considered related to BNT162b2 by investigators." Linking cardiac arrest to BNT162b2, or a redistribution of death, is your own speculation, but not backed by available data.

The data clearly shows that the vaccine is effective in preventing infections and severe cases. If you want to see a death disparity, do the unethical experiment and deny the severe cases treatment ...

For what population subgroup a vaccination is recommended is not content of my comment and requires a different and more extensive analysis, and ultimately boils down to a risk/benefit tradeoff on an individual and societal level, also taking environmental factors into account (population density, available icu beds, etc.)

Regarding the ICU beds, you can look up the numbers. In the US you have 30 / 100000 . Recall that in the study you had roughly 30 severe cases for 1000 infections. Not all of them will need an ICU, but the missing factor of 100 should worry you. Indeed, if you look what recently happened in India or last year in parts of Italy, it is definitely not a situation you want to be in.

Another simple argument: If the vaccine would be so bad as proclaimed by some, we would have had seen already a health disaster with hospitals running at max non-stop for various side effects. Note that world-wide far more than 1B doses have been given already.

I think it is not productive in a discussion to insult. You want to convince by argument or simply call names ?

Dreamer: "Regarding the vaccine group deaths according to p6: "None of these deaths were considered related to BNT162b2 by investigators."

Yeah, of course. We also polled drunk drivers, and they all agree the deaths in their car accidents were not caused by their drinking.

Here's an idiot whose death was not caused by the vaccine:

https://hallofirony.com/#10

Don't you know, he died from complications of diabetes. This just coincidentally followed his vaccination a month before.

This dude also did not die from the vaccine:

https://hallofirony.com/#13

Of course not, he died from Covid-19. It's just coincidental that his vaccination did not protect him.

I knew this one personally:

https://hallofirony.com/#8

Great doctor, but he rushed to be one of the first to test the vaccine on himself. He died months later for completely unrelated reasons: an immune disorder that appeared within 3 days of the vaccine.

Do you understand how these deaths are not in any way related to the vaccines?

Feel free to peruse the other entries on that website. If those are too few, then I suggest you check out the European drug safety database:

https://www.adrreports.eu/en/search_subst.html#

According to my last count, this contains:

- 12,336 deaths following any of the four Covid vaccines

- 9,836 of these deaths entered by health care professionals - not randoms

- 689 new fatal entries added since last week - an average amount since I started checking

- 355,919 people reporting serious effects - you can use the website and look at each individual entry for an idea about what these effects might be.

For an example – the following symptoms both count as "serious effects", not "fatal":

"Cardiac death (n/a - Recovered/Resolved"

"Clinical death (2d - Recovered/Resolved With Sequelae"

You motherfucker, going around asserting these vaccines are safe. You motherfucker!

Yes, insults are appropriate!

As sad as individual cases are, one should not let ones own perception being clouded by them.

Without detailed medical information about the individual cases, it is not possible to draw a causal link to vaccination. Coincidences happen. In particular, if already 4B+ shots have been given (just looked up the current number). Even if some of these sad cases are vaccine related, its probably not far fetched to assume that these particular cases would have similar serious side effects under catching COVID-19. And one thing is sure with the R numbers we observe: Sooner or later everyone not vaccinated will catch it.

Regarding your EUR numbers. You should keep in mind that 260M+ people have received at least one dose in the EU. Even if the 400k serious adverse cases reported are all causally linked to vaccination, that gives you an adverse case rate of 0.15%. (That is a maximum. The true number should be far lower.) Compare this to the ~3% expected cases of severe COVID. If you have the choice between catching COVID and taking the vaccine, the latter is the safer bet.

Of course, you can decide by yourself. But I hope you have also enough intellectual honesty to sign off any right for COVID related medical treatment and leave the limited medical resources to the breakthrough infection cases.

I could not reply earlier because Google unpublished this post. I had to remove the link to the Conservative Treehouse article that the algorithms wanted to censor. I replaced the post with a blunt critique of Google and its destiny, instead.

It seems pretty clear that you're not going to take 350,000 people reporting serious side effects seriously.

You're not going to consider these reports are likely dwarfed by millions whom doctors aren't taking seriously, but who are experiencing serious issues. Just one example:

Reddit - Just_another_Jay - #1

Reddit - Just_another_Jay - #2

You do not want to believe that this experience is not abnormal, it is typical.

You do not want to believe that when mass psychological abuse is being perpetrated on the population, the 350,000 reports of serious effects are maybe 10%, while all the others disappear, fall through the cracks.

Instead you want to believe that the vaccine is safe and that the 350,000 reports of myocarditis and such are inflated. The mass psychological abuse is working on you.

You want it to work, because you want to believe what the perpetrators want you to believe. You want to believe in systems led by caring people who will take care of you.

Do not worry! They will take care of you.

Here is Rochelle Walensky, Director of CDC.

We must vax 1 million teens to prevent one death!

Look at how pleased she is of taking care of you.

Look at her smile. She will take care of you.

Let me explain her smile:

http://www.changingminds.org/explanations/behaviors/lying/dupers_delight.htm

As mentioned already before, more than 260M people got vaccinated, for which, according to your data ( I did not verify ), 350k serious potential adverse effects have been reported. Note that these are reported coincidences, not causally verified. Considering that the demographics who got so far vaccinated in the EU are mainly 50+ and/or with health conditions, a coincidence rate of 0.15% does not seem really worrying. That these cases are only the tip of an iceberg, is your conjecture, which however is not backed by data. The occasional story you find on the net is not really useful to arrive at your conclusion as a) observational bias, i.e., people who do not have adverse effects or only slight effects generally do not report on the net, so it is hard to estimate any hidden iceberg b) The stories you find on the net are not necessarily reliable, because the real adversaries, i.e., china and russia, have a strong interest in finding useful fools to undermine the COVID response in the western world. Finally, your estimated ~1.35% shows that you do not seem to have a grasp on the real world, i.e., what goes on away from the net. If 1.35% of the population would have serious adverse side effects, that would be something you can not hide away. Health care system would be stressed on a similar level as during COVID peaks, but non-stop.

If it really makes sense to vaccinate teenagers is something one can indeed discuss, but is a different story.

Finally, it is not about believing, but about logic and common sense. It is not really a benefit for a government to intentionally destroy the health of part of the population, in particular if the affected part is sort of random. It is also not a benefit for pharma owners, as the shareholders position are usually < 1%. The potential gain in profit is irrelevant to the loss in the remaining 99% of the portfolios due to loss of productivity of part of the population. For the shareholders it would even make sense to give away the vaccine at a huge loss for the pharma company, such that the rest of the economy can continue uninterrupted. In fact, the only beneficiaries can be identified in case the COVID response fails, namely china and russia, in order of relevance. Unfortunately, there are a lot of useful fools for them out there.

You are trying to make conclusions based on data in a situation where it's documented that the processes responsible for collecting this data are corrupt.

You cannot have reliable data while simultaneously penalizing people for going against the narrative. This does not happen.

To see what happens when you try to rely on data while you simultaneously apply every possible pressure that bastardizes the data, look at the collapse of the Soviet Union.

When data are being collected in this way, if you base your life decisions on it, then you do so at your peril.

I will tell you this. My crystal ball predicts that two thirds of all who accept the injection are going to die within the next 2 years.

Prove me wrong. You cannot. Because there is no data about long-term survival. And if people survive, there is no data about potentially exorbitant numbers of side effects not limited to Parkinson's and Alzheimer's.

If you already took the vax, you're a scientific retard. This is not an insult; it's a factual observation. No sane person takes this vax and I forecasted this a year ago.

In two years, you can verify my forecast about whether 2/3 of the injected will die.

Good luck!

Also, it's not about profits. It's about power and total control, including total control over the population.

If it was about profits, we would not have had any lockdowns. The lockdowns are to destroy the economy, especially to bankrupt small businesses and concentrate power in the hands of the elite.

These are crimes against humanity that are going on, and you do not see them because you think people are rational and/or well-intentioned. Nope!

The world is being run by psychopaths, but you need more injury to yourself and others in order to be willing to see that. You may in fact deny this into your grave.

But don't take my word for it. Listen to Dr. Malone! This page starts the video more or less directly at the relevant section, about 15 minutes in:

https://patriotbites.com/dr-robert-malone-mrna-covid-vaccine-nightmare-may-be-causing-antibody-dependent-enhancement-ade/

You only need to watch about 10 minutes.

But who would listen to Dr. Malone, he's only a kook who spent his entire life developing vaccines and invented mRNA technology on which these vaccines are based.

Regarding the data collection: The vaccines efficiency and safety profiles (which is continuously monitored and updated) has been obtained independently in a lot of different jurisdictions, all with their own independent oversight, different political systems and ideological preferences. They all arrived at the same conclusion that the data tells that the reward of taking the vaccines far outweights the risk. This is not a monolithic oversight block as was common in the soviet union. For instance, you can see this in the european union, there the recommendations slightly vary between the different member states. Implying that there is a global conspiracy to suppress the data, invoking various levels of stakeholders in science, healthcare, administration and independent organizations, in various different political systems, is a bit far fetched. Note that even the CCP is now silently switching to mRNA vaccines, as their own doesn't work well enough for delta.

Of course one can not fully exclude that there are absolutely no long term effects, even if you run a study for years. However, biochemical one can estimate that there are none expected, beyond as worst case what you could also get from a covid infection. And if you are not vaccined, you will get covid if you want or not. That is given with the R. What is the vaccine ? Essentially just a mRNA sequence with a lipid cover. It is highly unstable and will decay within hours. Your muscle cells at the injection side will produce a bunch of the virus proteins according to the mRNA plan, so there is nothing that your body would not see as well under a SARS-COV2 infection (up to the lipids). So long term effects are expected at most what you would also see under covid. But to my knowledge a vaccine induced long covid hasn't been observed/discussed yet in the literature.

Regarding Mr. Malone: There are a lot of scientists with varying opinions. I would always be sceptical with the ones who seek the spotlight and cross-check against the literature and think about if it could make sense what they say. Even some of the Nobel laureates once in a while spit out a lot of bull****. He should know that the anti-body dependent enhancement he is worrying about would have been observed in the phase II or III study. We have mass vaccinations since Dec, if there would be anti-body dependent enhancement, we would know by now. Regarding his point about the strains. It is known that the strains with increased immune escape already developed before wide spread vaccination. He should also know, that the only strategy to decrease the likelihood for vaccine escape is actually to vaccinate as quickly as possible the full population. Because otherwise there is a large reservoir of unvaccinated people in which new strains will develop. The interaction with the vaccinated will give a selective pressure to find a spillover route.

You still seem to think we live in a functional system composed of individuals that have the people's best interest in mind, and have no unifying agenda at the top.

Here is an article from a few days ago in Germany:

https://www-aerzteblatt-de.translate.goog/nachrichten/126061/Heidelberger-Pathologe-pocht-auf-mehr-Obduktionen-von-Geimpften

Archive: https://archive.is/quVYI

My dude - this is what is currently going on:

"In Baden-Württemberg, the pathologists therefore worked with public prosecutors, the police and resident doctors, reports Schirmacher. More than 40 people have already been autopsied who died within two weeks of being vaccinated. Schirmacher assumes that 30 to 40 percent of them died from the vaccination. In his opinion, the frequency of fatal consequences of vaccinations is underestimated - a politically explosive statement in times when the vaccination campaign is losing momentum, the delta variant is spreading rapidly and restrictions on non-vaccinated people are being discussed.

Schirmacher received a clear contradiction from other scientists. The statements that there is currently too little knowledge about side effects and the dangers of vaccination are underestimated are incomprehensible, said the Paul Ehrlich Institute."

You are part of the "contradiction from other scientists". My estimate is that there's a 2/3 chance that you will be dead within 2 years, since you took the vax on faith and your faith is based on sand.

Regarding this: "He should also know, that the only strategy to decrease the likelihood for vaccine escape is actually to vaccinate as quickly as possible the full population."

Geert Vanden Bossche and Luc Montagnier, among others, have all said that you never do a mass vaccination campaign in the middle of a pandemic. They have all called for the vaccination to be stopped, months ago.

What's happening is pure engineering hubris. Not scientific hubris, but the hubris of engineers, the kinds of people who construct software and therefore think they know about complex systems.

This hubris is going to result in death. The Google employees that I'm scathing in the second revision of this post will simply be dead soon, perhaps this winter.

The irony is that all this is for nothing. We could lift all mandates, toss all masks, stop all Covid testing, and continue life as normal without noticing anything regarding the "Delta variant".

The Delta variant fearmongering exists so that the illegitimate regime in the US can be entrenched. It's so that California can send mail-in ballots for Newsom's recall election. It's so that 2022 mid-terms can be stolen in the same way that the 2020 election was stolen.

Of course if you're one of the naive people, then you don't think anything like this is happening, and you are happily led by the nose to dose yourself with something that will kill you. And you do this thinking it's necessary to stop an imaginary "plague" that is spreading around the world.

I swear, smart people couldn't be stupider.

Let me give you an example of the gullibility of human nature:

Veterinarian Pleads Guilty to Making Animal Torture Porn

https://www.vice.com/en/article/k78kdv/florida-veterinarian-guilty-plea-sexual-abuse

"The unsealed criminal complaint against Madden reveals that he described sexually abusing dogs with dildoes, his hands, and penis, and took photos of himself abusing several different dogs. Investigators used the GPS geolocation contained in the photos' metadata to find that they were taken in the animal hospital where Madden worked.

Madden was previously beloved by pet owners, and is named in multiple five-star Yelp reviews for the animal hospital Caring Hands. At the time of his March arrest, clients were shocked to hear that he'd been charged."

The Covid situation is the same – except we're the dogs. Yet, half of us still adore the abusers.

BTW - since you most likely think my forecast, that 2/3 of the vaccinated are going to die, is fantastic:

I call your attention to the Deagel population forecast for 2025:

https://archive.is/nAHJK

This forecasts reduction in total US population to about 100 million, and similar reductions in EU countries.

Some context of this forecast - a post from a few months ago:

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/04/doug-casey/shocking-2025-deagel-forecast-war-population-reduction-and-the-collapse-of-the-west/

If you look at the fine print on Deagel's website, they explain their forecast as follows:

"The collapse of the Western financial system will wipe out the standard of living of its population while ending ponzi schemes such as the stock exchange and the pension funds. [...] We see a significant part of the American population migrating to Latin America and Asia"

230 million people are going to migrate to Latin America, huh?

No. If this comes to pass, they will die from the vaccines. :)

Regarding Mr. Schirmacher:

He seems to imply that according to his sample 30%-40% of people who died up to 2w after vaccination have their death linked to vaccination. However, one moment of thought reveals how unlikely this is to be possibly true: Since millions are vaccinated each day world-wide, for already more than half a year, you would see a constant (not a spike) elevated excess daily death rate compared to previous years, if his hypothesis is true. Note that the death are recorded in local administrative regions, and the death records are usually public accessible. Its quite implausible that your global conspiracy has a conspirator sitting in each little village and carefully tuning (or rather not recording) the death records such that no excess is visible. It seems to me far more plausible, that Mr. Schirmacher exaggerates "a bit" his observations in order to secure more direct and easy (no paperwork asked for), funding for his related research.

Regarding the two gentleman who do not want to do mass vaccinations: Without giving the precise argument they use for their claim, I can not comment on it.

Your ignorance of the potential impact of sars-cov2 is quite astonishing. Do you think the chinese shut down Wuhan for fun ? (including welding people into their homes?) We have by now more and more evidence that the chinese knew much earlier, and know much more than they admit.

Trying to link the pandemic to election politics does not make a lot of sense. There is a far simpler reason for why ultimately Trump was destined to fail, even so some of his political decisions were good. A majority of people simply get tired and upset about someone behaving too often like an egomaniac, and producing constant visible drama. You do not need a huge conspiracy to explain this.

Finally, regarding Deagal: A forecast without a detailed explanation on how they arrived at the forecast is worthless. I can also just make a website and put out some randomly absurd numbers, and I will find for sure people who happily quote them, as long as the direction of numbers confirms their prior believe.

Dreamer, I think it's not worthwhile to argue with ghosts. You are a ghost, i.e. a person who will be dead soon.

Within a few years, people who have the weaknesses you have – unconditional gullibility; intellectual submission to authority; basically the character of a dog who chooses either this owner or that owner, but must always have an owner; these gullible people will simply be dead, and will have no influence on what remains of our society, for the next few generations.

"Your ignorance of the potential impact of sars-cov2 is quite astonishing."

This is not ignorance. It's awareness of real data, as opposed to you, who watch the news and read "legitimate" media and therefore you are completely brainwashed.

SARS-CoV-2 is a fart. Nothing should have been done about it a year ago. The fact that people are still falling for gaslighting after 18 months, plain straight-out lies about full hospitals that are in fact empty, about the Delta variant that is a bunch of cases and no mortality, ... this is basically a condemnation of you and your ability to interpret reality.

You are basically an inconsequential person, and soon you will be a non-person, since I assume you took both injections of the jab, lol.

I would help you with some tips on how to survive your injection, but they will not register as long as you believe Covid is a plague and a threat, lol. Once you realize people are dying from their injections, come back and I can offer some tips based on data that will be available at that time.

Also, if you don't understand Trump and the fact that he won with 100 million votes, then you understand nothing about reality. Not only do you understand nothing about reality, but nothing about yourself and how you arrive at your opinions. If you ever really looked into Trump, you would realize he's nothing like what they portray him to be, and your disrespect of him is 100% gullibility and peer pressure.

Basically, so far in your writing, I have not registered the presence of a single original thought that you did not get as a result of indoctrination. This is why people who are aware of what's going on call people like you NPCs.

100% programmed entities. There is no content in you that's actually yours. You are incapable of changing your mind unless I buy a media outlet you trust and speak to you through that media outlet.

I feel bad about speaking to you this bluntly, but there are requirements that a person must meet in order to participate in a conversation.

Right now you don't meet these requirements. I wish you well, but you need to complete more of your journey. :) Please feel free to come back after you've learned some things, and I mean substantially.

For most with a bit of knowledge of humans it is sufficient to listen what and how he says things, and to watch his body language, to put Trump into the right category.

Anyway, in summary, for all your statements in this discussion I gave you extensive and logically sound rebuttals, which you were not able to counter. In fact, you provided not a single real argument, but entirely relied on anecdotal reports and fringe statements, without arguing why it could make sense what your quoted sources are claiming.

This makes me wonder who actually the NPC is.

You can believe what you want, but reality can only be bend a finite amount to fit your believe.

Reality actually bends 100% to fit your expectations, but that's an advanced topic that you're likely not ready to discuss.

You did not present any extensive or logically sound rebuttals, you just presented your media programming with which I am familiar.

You think you're presenting me with arguments, but you're really a person inside the Matrix who believes in the reality of the Matrix. You don't understand what outside of the Matrix is like.

I'm a person outside of the Matrix, and I understand both the view of the person inside the Matrix, and the completely different situation outside.

If you think your arguments fell on deaf ears, it's because I know them. I know how the world looks from inside the Matrix.

You believe in a nice fairy tale which will last as long as you are useful.

About reality bending 100%... that's maybe 1% off.

Reality will bend to your expectations. You will find evidence which you expect. You will experience a world that fits your expectations. Up to nuclear holocaust if you believe humanity is so irredeemable that it inevitably destroys itself. If you believe that, you will experience such an outcome, and others will not.

Reality will not bend, however, to outcomes that are impossible. There are invariants of the physical universe which are maintained, and though you have great freedom within those invariants, there are invariants that are maintained.

Likewise, there are invariants of the underlying reality, beyond physical, which are maintained. You will not truly become a person made of matter, arising spontaneously in a universe made of matter, no matter how thoroughly you believe such a thing. The universe will adapt to the expectation as much as possible, but your fundamental nature will not change.

You may therefore create for yourself a universe where science "saves the day", where the vaccines "work", where everyone gets a digital passport, where you have to take an injection every 6 months to be "pure" and "safe".

If you create such a world, then you will focus on all the evidence that will make it seem this is self-evident and true, and you will ignore evidence to the contrary.

But the underlying nature of your person will not change. The way you create and maintain your body will not change. As your beliefs grow further apart from your nature, the quality of your experience in the world you create will worsen. As your experience worsens, you will chase solutions in deep rabbit holes and self-creating mazes without end.

This is the false path. It's a path where you pretend the universe is constructed in a way that it is not, that you yourself function in ways that you do not. There's a deep rabbit hole that way, but no satisfactory answers until you stop pretending.

I think there is nothing of value to be added. Others can form their own opinion reading this thread.

Dreamer, no one except us is going to read this thread. :)